21 Is BMW M5 xDrive G30 already obsolete?

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Next generation all-wheel-drive M5 is not out yet, but it already looks it will fail to regain performance sedan leadership for BMW.

Regular G30 is enjoying favorable reviews which may help G30 M5 win in sales - something BMW would, certainly, appreciate after losing its status of largest luxury car manufacturer to Mercedes-Benz.

Performance leadership is where G30 M5 will face tough competition from Porsche and Audi, particularly from the Panamera Turbo S.

I doubt that BMW will match 680 - 700 horsepower output (allegedly the new M5 will have 600 PS), and BMW will certainly not match Porsche in perceived technological advancement. Fully-electric is where industry is going and high performance hybrid is a stepping-stone towards that.

Porsche don't have Tesla Model S rival yet, but they are developing one (Porsche "Mission E" project) and it should arrive circa 2020. BMW don't have anything to counter Tesla Model S either and it looks like in 2017 they won't even have the intermediary performance hybrid.

M division are still a step behind competition and, if it wasn't for the xDrive, it would be 2 steps. And 2 steps is a lot of steps in market segment where it often comes down to photo-finish to determine who beats what and which sports sedan really deserves to be called "world's fastest".

7m ago by FastestLaps
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IanT  6m ago

Honestly and with the greatest respect, this was literally the worst thing I have ever read. Speculating on a car that doenst yet exist and making comparisons on spec that are not yet confirmed is frankly ridiculous.

 

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Stuart.  1m ago

I concur


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Hans  6m ago

New m5 for the X-drive will use same shit as Focus RS... ZF vector differential at he back.


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rhs1992  7m ago

I just looked at old tests. 745i E23 is heavier than M3 by 100kg. So it isn't that bad in weight compared to old cars. But E30 320i weights like Polo 1.0 TSI



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Tes  7m ago

The thing is that the m cars were always the lightest in their class so i dont see a problem even the current m5 is lighter than the new e63s and panamera turbo and as i read in a article bmw will make the new m5 lighter than the f10 despite having awd


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FastestLaps  7m ago

3 series sedans are larger than those M5s of yesteryear

I think its even worse with weight. Despite better manufacturing and lighter materials, modern cars just have so much equipment in them (and structural requirements for crashtests) that 2017 3 series is probably just as heavy as E23 or E32 7 series.


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rhs1992  7m ago

New 3 series isn't that much larger than 5 series from early 80s.


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saxy  7m ago

Honestly I think the Uber saloons shouldn't be the larger M5s/E63s. Once upon a time they were relatively good size, but now 3 series sedans are larger than those M5s of yesteryear. If driving dynamics was your first priority, you wouldn't want gigantic rear executive seats. I believe the "king" of sports saloons is your M3/Giulia/C63s...

For me, the latter C63 507 models were perhaps the pinnacle of sports saloons. 500+hp, 4 doors, NA V8 engine.


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FastestLaps  7m ago

i hope the new m5 will blow the huntchback of stuttgart and show it who's boss once again.

Back in the E34 era M5 was the boss. W124 500E and Audi S4 2.2T/4.2V8 were heavier and less suitable for road racing. They had their own strengths and, no doubt, I would take the 500E today (even with the dreadful automatic) if Santa Claus gave me a choice of the three. But E34 was performance king. Not the best car (W124 is the best car ever), but the best performance saloon. With G30 it may be exactly opposite.


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cosimo  7m ago

AMG underrate their.motors and Porsche as well. It makes them seem like even bigger geniuses at putting the power down.BMW is following a very German trend.

this is a german thing since the day earth was created, when they tell you power has gone up 15hp that's almost 80hp or closer to 100hp.

but i must admit, the bmw wins when it comes to fun driving and scary moments, maybe the new e63 is good too ? but the m5 was always the one with a crazy ride and long ass wheel spins and ass shakes throwing you out of the road. the traction control module must have been duplicated out of a toyota camry or a lexus v8 ?

if they get it right and their b*tch ass customers stop complaining about harsh rides, it sure as hell will retain the crown as the king of sedans. this is an m powered car and we do not need another soft ass ride with jelly under my butt suspension system. you can pick up a 5 series without the m badge and a smoother ride and power delivery.

i hope the new m5 will blow the huntchback of stuttgart and show it who's boss once again.

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saxy  7m ago

This is just a matter of bragging rights. The whole point of a large sports saloon is to have some fun occasionally and not how fast it is around a track. If you want to track, you wouldn't use a gigantic saloon. This is where I think the Germans have lost the plot.

Hence why some older M5s or the more recent GSF are becoming a lot more interesting.


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Fastedee  7m ago

I mean that AMG electric supercar is pretty cool but it can never equal the awesome wanton savagery of a Petrol SLS,GTS or GTR.


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Fastedee  7m ago

AMG underrate their.motors and Porsche as well. It makes them seem like even bigger geniuses at putting the power down.BMW is following a very German trend. Most will find it fast enough. If Aston and Maserati(especially Maserati)can sell with their performance and infotainment then how much does BMW have to fear? BMW's are more attractive than Panamera class Porsches anyhow. Hybrids are a good performance supplement but in the main are more suited to Joe Sixpack cars. There should always be room for glorious petrol only knuckle dragging supersedans and coupes.They are too few in number to affect the environment.


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degaton  7m ago

'World's Fastest' doesn't mean 'World's Best'. In pure Super Saloon terms, the E63S AMG has the measure of the Panamera Turbo yet will most likely be slower round the majority of race tracks around the world. I think the verdict is still very much open when it comes to the F90


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FastestLaps  7m ago

Don't think the panamera rivals the 5 series. The panamera is a class above at over 5 meters long and even have a 5.2 meters long LWB version. It's basically a limo

Interior space for first gen Panamera wasn't close to 7-series and S clss, hence it kinda fell into 5-series/E-Class/A6 bracket.

These mid-size sedans historically are the ones that are fastest. They have more power than small exec sedans (3-Series etc) and they are not as heavy as full size saloons, which historically have never gotten more powerful engines as the most powerful option in mid-size.

There is not gonna be no BMW 7-Series that will compete with Panamera Turbo S, so you might as well compare it to the M5.

Remember - BMW used to be undisputed king in 4-door cars. M5 used to be special - it isn't no more.


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FastestLaps  7m ago

I doubt that BMW S85 was making 50 hp more than advertised. In n.a. engines you can't really play tricks like remap more boost for press cars etc. Turbo engines are notorious for this. It started with Nissan GT-R and for BMW it was really the F10 and F80 era.


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hostboy  7m ago

BMW has always been underrating motors since the E60 M5 and E63 M6 came out, which actually made 550+ hp from the factory and sprinted to 60 mph in around four seconds, and accelerated from 80 to 120 km/h in 1.9 sec (ridiculous even for any 550hp 2004 production car) with a 7-speed SMG transmission. The F10 M5 actually made 620-640 hp but it couldn't reach 200 mph unlike the E60. Hopefully, the G30 makes 680-700 actual hp (610 in conservative BMWspeak).

 

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IanT  6m ago

Yes, BMW turbo engines tend to be underrated but the S85 V10 made nowhere even close to 550 hp from the factory, you are talking utter nonsense. Also, why can't an F10 m5 reach 200+ mph? Plenty of proof of cars acheiving this post limiters ( yes both of them) being removed, which really is of the same vein as the E60 - neither of the two would get anywhere close to 200 mph from the factory given they were ALL limited. Suggest you go and do some research before spouting ill informed drivel.


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rhs1992  7m ago

? Panamera Turbo S will be around 80% more expensive! even regular Turbo with 550PS is much more expensive and rivals M760Li, not 5 series!
M5 will start at around 110K Euro, Turbo S is is 185K


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jeremy  7m ago

Don't think the panamera rivals the 5 series. The panamera is a class above at over 5 meters long and even have a 5.2 meters long LWB version. It's basically a limo. Just that it's sporty doesn't make it a mid-size executive car.

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