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manone  9m ago

endurance cars are still centuries behind in R&D compared to f1, no matter how fast they could possibly go.

 

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mrft  9m ago

Considering LMP requires running for a whole 24 hours, I really don't see the basis for your argument. Perhaps your argument would be valid if you backed up with evidence, not that there is much considering how countless technologies you see on modern cars, whether performance or hundrum, originated in Le Mans. There's a reason why TVR want to go there with their new Griffith: it's because it's the ultimate test of a car, and they can properly put their machines to the track and prove their worth.


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manone  9m ago @mrft

The first obvious argument is "budget", with either mercedes'
OR ferrari's alone accounting basically for the whole
lmp1 and
lmp2 teams together. Unless you postulate that engineers
working in f1 are inherently dumber than those working in
endurance series, it is hard not to expect applications in f1
of this mindpower not to be vastly superior.

Second obvious argument are the much more restrictive f1
rules compared to wec, save basically for shorter
individual races. But even racing for 24 hours for an actual f1
would not require such big changes. It is actually surprising
that top f1s cars are so much faster than top endurance's.


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DrDuke  9m ago @mrft

okay a race weekend in f1 has 4h practice session, quali and then 2h race. Sums up to around 6h for a weekend. The engine is used for 7 weekends. Therefore an F1 engine has to last around 42h - almost 2 24h races... And the battery has to last half a saison or 63h. The petrol engine has just 1.6liter compared to at least 2liter in lmp1. Power output in Lmp1 is around 500ps while a f1 engine has around 800ps. Or specific output per liter for lmp1 around 250ps and for f1 500ps


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saxy  9m ago @DrDuke

Hell no. Typically cars only do about 20 laps in each practice, so about 30 minutes in each practice. Engines are turned down and heat stresses are minimal. Races last only 1:30. So combined that would only be 3.5hrs per weekend, with half of the time the engine turned down. I bet most teams will have to take up an engine penalty this year, and all you lose is 1 race out of 21. If you lose an engine in the 23rd hr of Le Mans, you aren’t even classified.

Power output per liter means nothing. Increase the F1 engine size and it won’t make any more hp. The F1 engine creates more hp mostly because it uses more fuel.


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DrDuke  9m ago @saxy

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2018/races/979/australia/practice-1.html

Albert Park 5.303km / lap - Race: 58 laps = 307.574km
Vettel 153 laps = 811.359 km
Hamilton 147 laps = 779.541km

Bahrain 5.412km / lap – Race: 57 laps = 308.405km
Vettel 132 laps = 714.384 km
Hamilton 140 laps = 757.68 km

China 5.451km / lap – Race 56 laps = 305.066km
Vettel 130 laps = 708.63km
Hamilton 135 laps = 735.885km

Total
Vettel = 2234.373km
Hamilton = 2273.106km

So in total the will do around 5500km per engine and there is certainly a safety margin too. In 2015 the Mercedes engine with the most km had almost 4900km. If you reduce the fuel flow to lmp level then power and revs would drop and the engine life would be significantly longer. Power per liter and max revs are very good indicators for engine stress. If they could run 2 liter engines they wouldn’t have more power because of the fuel flow restriction that’s true. But the average pressure in the combustion camber would be 25% lower to achieve the same power. The temperatures would be lower and the max revs.
There was a discussion if the f1 engines should be allowed in lmp1 to give the teams a possibility to sell more engines / reduces costs per engine.
In practice they have to ascertain tire and fuel usage. Therefore they need to run at race speeds. Otherwise they would gather useless data. Only the in laps are clearly slower.
Mercedes have around 1600 engineers (800 engine, 800 chassis) working on their car - Ferrari around 1200. Normal midfield teams have around 400 and Haas has 250 but the chassis is developed by Dallara and not in house.
I don’t know how many people work in a lmp1 factory team but I don’t think that they have more than 400 engineers.


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saxy  9m ago

With the WEC restrictors removed, the 919 set a all time record of 1:41.77 lap time at spa, releasing the full 1200hp potential. Which is crazy because that's faster than Hamilton's outright lap record from last year, where the F1 car is much lighter + having super wide sticky tires + 1000hp.

 

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Sonatine  9m ago

The car is called Porsche 919 Hybrid Evo.


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manone  9m ago

Not so surprising i would say. it is not just a powered up 919, but
lighter and aerodynamically radically tweaked, as well. It is a ruleless mulotype. Moreover, these endurance cars have basically no
restrictions for ground effect, and this fact alone makes the same
difference as driving at montecarlo and on an oval circuit.
Just look at the performance difference in hillclimb races where you have sport-prototype cars like osella and norma racing against furmula cars and sharing the same engine: formula cars are being regularly obliterated, often by more than 10 seconds, because of ground effect.


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FastestLaps  2y ago

LMP1 back in action this Sunday!!!

 

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tyler  2y ago

It is fantastic news