Laguna Seca (post 1988) lap times

Agreed, it was fully race prepped for pikes peak hill climb. Not even remotely similar to what the actual tesla model s plaid buyer would be getting lol.

Maybe because it hasn't been released as yet so it's not officially a production car?

They did in July. They presented the production car. It's been heavily updated. There's a silver production car. I mean SSC only have one. :)

that car will never be released as production, because it was way too far removed from it.

What are you talking about? What was too far removed from what and how specifically? And what do you know about production cycles of a 2023 year release car or the make up of it's technical specifications?

Yeah, really.

https://germancarforum.com/attachments/2631093082914173673-jpg.559027/

Doesn't look quite stock though.

I'm not a member nor do i want to become one so i can't see it...

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA... wake me up when a street spec (with back seats, street legal tires, and street spec aero) beats 1:33.

Holy shit man! that's a full on racecar, not a streetcar worthy of mention.

dude, that was the pike peaks race car? lmao, "production car"
Might as well say the Peugeot Pikes peak 208 16T is the fastest production peugeot hatchback then.

here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CSDwNpgsYoN/
I don't think you need to sign up for this one.
list of upgrades:
Bilstein suspension,
insane aero,
carbon buckets with harness (driver only. all other seats are deleted completely),
race oriented brake system,
slicks,
interior delete
anti-roll bar

That big ass spoiler already tells the joke. Nowhere near stock.

That's the biggest splitter on a sedan I have ever seen.

WTF lol Randy Pobst said "This car is not far at all from the stock street car"

Have you seen the size of the rear wing and that's on a 4 door sedan lol??

I wonder what laptime could achieve powerful petrol sedan like M5 CS or Jag Project 8 with such a mods. About 1:20 maybe?

Nah they would need shitloads more hp just to try and match the Plaid time. The Plaid's instant rapid speed and traction out of corners is primarily why it would be faster at Laguna Seca. It probably also weighs 1900kg given it's been gutted...

Pretty sure that M5 with 700 hp, 200-300 kg weight reduction, racing suspension, slicks and such an aggressive aero would be potentially faster than road legal Senna and faster by much.
Anyway, Tesla can't use all it's power for a long time.

The M5 CS already has 700 peak hp from the factory and that's a fact. No chance it will beat the Senna with those mods and I'll put 10K on that. Now all we need to do is to get someone to modify the M5 so that i can win 10K lol

Modifications of this Tesla are so dip that it is comparable with M8 GTE.
I know GTE has very little common with road going M8, but power/weight ratio with gutted M5 would be close.

https://www.sportscarracingnews.com/2019/09/15/imsa-laguna-seca-qualifying-round-up-2/amp/

Yeah but hang on a minute the M8 GTE weighs 1250kg with driver and is a full blown race car. The BMW M5 CS is a production car and even with the numerous mods you mentioned would be nowhere near that fast. My statement still stands and you'll need to do far better than that to prove me wrong :)

I believe stock for stock Tesla Plaid has zero chanses on tracks against M5 CS. With similar modifications the gap probably would be less, but still BMW should win comfortably.
If you can argumentatively prove me wrong I'll give you 10K.

By the way, GT2 RS has 700 hp, ~1500 kg, less aggressive aero and is only barely slower. On slicks, GT2 RS would definitely be faster than this "near stock " Tesla, so no shitloads of power needed.

I haven't even mentioned the GT2RS which of course is going to be shitloads faster than a stock Plaid on track. I always default to the Nurb because it's the ultimate testing ground and this year Gebhardt did 7:29 in a M5 CS which is a reasonably fast lap. We know that a Plaid did an unofficial lap of 7:13 in 2019. My guess is that a stock Plaid with presumably full power ie.1200+hp on Cup2R's would be even faster so i'll take the 10K thanks lol BTW it isn't easy for me acknowledge that the Plaid will be faster given how much i detest Musk and i'm not a fan of EV's by any stretch of the imagination...

Oh sure, 7:13...
In the specification like at Laguna Seca?
And if you want to compare Sport Auto laptimes, let's wait for Gebhardt's laptime in the Plaid, right?
I didn't thought that you are so naive to believe in a fairytales.

This was the car that apparently did 7:13 which was apparently on Cup2R's. However they had 2 cars there back in 2019 so perhaps the less radical version was the one that did 7:20's according to peeps who were there using stopwatches. Anyway let's wait and see because a lap record attempt isn't far off and then we can make a more accurate judgement.

https://insideevs.com/news/380247/tesla-model-s-plaid-beat-taycan/

So, and then you are still ready to put your money on Plaid stock for stock?
Take a note, that in Sport Auto test M5CS was on Corsas, so in a factory attempt with Cup 2R tires it could probably get close to 7:13, while for Tesla to achieve that time intensive tuning of aero, brakes and suspension was required.

You have overestimated the potential of the M5 CS using Cup2R's and factory driver because the best it could get would be approx 7:20. The biggest advantage the Plaid has is its phenomenal acceleration out of corners that the CS cannot match so even if the Plaid loses out a little with braking or corner speed the M5 cannot make up the deficit. You've got to also bear in mind that even though the Nurb has shitloads of corners it's also one the fastest tracks on the planet so i repeat the Plaid will be faster and my money is still on the table :P

Ok)

Good point you make. you or @196ss did say stock v stock, so no cup 2s or cup2Rs for the m5cs. also, no wing or other fancy trickery for the plaid. comparing the specs:
power and torque
Plaid: 1050hp ± (official, 1020) and 1050lb-ft± (official)
M5cs: 700hp ± (official, 627) and 570lb-ft± (official, 553lb-ft)
weight
Plaid: 5000lbs ± with diver (official, 4833)
M5cs: 4200lbs ± with driver ( official, 4023)
tires
plaid: 245/265 f/r (Michelin pilot sport 4s)
M5cs: 275/285 f/r (Pirelli P zero corsa)

Verdict: the M5cs would be quicker entering and around corners but the plaid has the advantage leaving corners and on straightaways. it'll be interesting to see how these play out when more track times come out and Eel On Musk decides to actually put out performance figures and track times of the real car that customers are getting. I think however that the plaid + would beat the M5.

On the same rubber the Plaid will be faster. Their 1:30.3 lap at Laguna Seca was on Cup2R's and the faster time was on Yokohama slicks so the Plaid will beat the CS until it starts to runs out of battery after 3 laps or so at the Nurb or it possibly overheats and slows?

Tesla which made 1:30 was far from stock either.

Yep 100% nowhere near stock, it had significant mods...

Ok.
Tesla set a record of 7:30,909 on the Nordschleife Full, this will be approximately 7:26 for the 20600 m configuration.
This is faster than I expected, but since it is the factory time, and 7:29 for the M5 CS is the Sport Auto time, I still believe that BMW is faster on the track. The difference between the factory lap times and Sport Auto is usually about 10 seconds.
Let's wait for more tests.

https://insideevs.com/news/532116/tesla-models-plaid-record-nurburgring/amp/

I presume they were using Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tyres which are pretty much on par with the Pirelli PZero Corsas on the M5 CS. I'd say that the Plaid will beat the M5 CS on fast tracks like Spa, Monza,Paul Ricard etc whereas it'll be closer on slower tracks.

Well, last time I checked, Nordschleife is also a fast track, and it doesn't look like Plaid had a big advantage there.
Most likely the Plaid will be faster in corner exits and on the straights. But, let's not forget that the top speed of the Plaid is now only 163 mph, while the M5 CS can accelerate further up to 190 and partially compensate the gaps. In addition, the M5 will have a gain in time on the braking zones.

I believe the speed limitation is only a temporary measure so on that basis it could've potentially been 3 sec faster at the Nurb if the limiter was removed given that there's two sections where the additional speed could be utilised.

I think we can sum up the preliminary results.

Nordschleife:
M5 CS - 7:29.57 (driver journalist Gebhardt)
Plaid - 7:30,91 (factory driver Simonsen)
The results are close, but you have to consider the difference in the level of the factory and Sport Auto tests. The BMW is obviously faster here.

Dunville:
M5 CS - 1:10.02
Plaid - 1:12.50.
Nonprofessional driver Tom Holland. The comparison is on a level playing field, the BMW is faster.

Willow Springs:
M5 CC - 1:28.76
Plaid - 1:27.78.
Driver Pro Randy Pobst. Level playing field comparison, Tesla is faster.

Bottom line, the main problem for the Tesla is braking. Without carbon-ceramic and wider rubber, the Tesla has a hard time showing anything intelligible on the track. I think the fairly good times at Willow Springs are due to the fact that there are only 2 more or less hard braking points at that track. Also, on longer tracks, the inability to run the battery at maximum power for long periods of time also becomes noticeable.
In general, on short tracks with limited use of the brakes, the Plaid is faster. On long tracks with an abundance of hard braking zones the fastest is BMW.
I suggest a draw.

Ok, given that i don't give a shit about the Plaid agreed :)

I think the Cybertruck will be more your thing, being a "ute" and all! And whilst you may not care of the Plaid, it's performance can not be denied. Not speaking about you, but if that were an AMG E class the whole World would be going nuts!

You've only to look at Porsche Taycan sales vs "traditional" 911 sales to see, it already has! ;)

If you don't care, why bothered argue?

Tom Holland? THAT Tom Holland? He doesn't even know how to turn on the lights on an Audi TT.

Intellectual exercise :)

Nah i can't stand Musk and his attitude so i will never own nor want to own a Tesla...

Yeah I've read things about what he's said and stated! Goes over your head! But that's what everyone says before they try it! LOL! Anyway a 1000hp BMW M5 EV is rumoured! I'll wait for that even if I'm more a Benz man!

;)

And that was on non-racing street tires