Virginia International Raceway Grand East Course (post 01/2014) lap times

For cars that are actually meant to be driven on the road, it really is quite stupid. These tires are terrible in cornering and braking group if the tires aren’t properly heated even in dry conditions. Wet conditions are would be outright dangerous. Hence why lap times are not the only thing that makes a car good, without factoring any context of how the performance was achieved

It is just scaling out of control. Not to mention there are sooooo many benefits to having skinnier tyres. Less tyre noise, less rolling resistance, higher top speed, more usability in poor weather, less tyre wear, higher fuel economy. But no, americans cant figure out how to make a car handle without sticking slicks on it and widening the tyres. So they do just that, add some basic as **** aero and then claim performance and amazing handling.
Honestly americans should just stay away from high performance cars and stick with muscle cars. At least those had character.

..You do know, That tyres ARE engineering right? EVERY part of a car is engineering, Anything that makes a car go fast, Hell anything that makse a car a car, Is engineering, Plain and simple, They didnt just slap grippy tyres on it, They never have, Every model has been engineered, And your saying a 720S and Huracan achieve far superior laptimes with far narrower tyres and safer? The Performante uses TROFEO R tyres! Hell an SV and SVJ uses 355 rear tyres! Both bigger and grippier then any Corvette Same with a Countach in the 80s that use 345 rear tyres for 450bhp! And your complaining about rain driving? Not too mention Corsas are the SAME CATEGORY as MPSC2s, WHen a C6 ZO6 came out in 2005/06 is was whoopin everything, With its crap runflats, SO dont give me that bullshit its just about tyres, Everything from weight to gearing was enhanced, Americans have always published laptimes, Always, its no different then 96, And if they just approach it with your ham fisted approache, And are able to beat said competition, WHat does that say about european engineering?.Now you really are just being ignorant, I cannot take you seriously anymore with that biased bullshite speech you just wrote.

Well but no European car ever had such wide front tires. Tire compound is important too, because a trofeo R is nowhere as grippy as a normal tire in normal road driving. These kind of compounds require you to be really on it on the track or weaving left and right to get enough heat into them for them to get into working temperatures. I applaud Mclaren for putting corsas on their 720s standard and in their tests. If you used the car for real track driving say for long times, then yes the trofeos will be much better. Pretty much never on the actual road during road legal speeds are the trofeos better in terms of grip, which again points to how laptimes aren’t all that indicates how a car handles on the road without the context.

Tires are engineering ofc, but it’s michelin’s engineering, not chevys. Same goes for lambo and pirelli

100% agree, im not gonna disagree with most of that, However, that doesnt apply to bespoke tyres As more higher performance cars seem to be going bespoke knowadays, As special cars should. If a tyre is made WITH and FOR the car, Thruought its development, Then its not just the tire compamy, Its a joint venture with both the tyre company and the car company to develop the tyres inconjunction with one another, That is engineering on both parts, Both the tire company and car company They both had a hand in the devolpment of the tyre for the car while devolping the car and tyre, Its not just one

"C6 ZO6 came out in 2005 and was whooping everything"
calls me ignorant. k

By everything, Ofcourse i didnt mean everything, Its called exaggerated features, didnt think i needed to explain this, So yeah...you just proved my point..

To be honest, im actually interested to see if america can actually make a real supercar. Ford GT Mk2 was the best shot at it but in terms of performance it came out a few years too late. I hope we can at least agree on that. And i dont dispute that in terms of value for money the ZR1 is amazing but you cant deny it is a bit of a dinosaur compared to real exotics.

When i speak of vehicle developement i dont include tyres because they are not technically a fixed part of the car. They change every year and i just find it really awkward that car makers have to resort to just being more and more agressive in terms of rubber to "improve".

I dont know you IRL BR2+, i hope there are no hard feelings. But you have to admit that car makers are on a slippery slope when it comes to chasing laptimes now. It is a search for stickier and stickier rubber, throwing everyday use and safety out of the window in the quest for laptime. I bashed on GM and the zr1 out of anger, but i could just as easily have gone onto the Lamborghini SVJ as you say which uses even fatter tyres.

Not to suck mclarens dick, but the reason why the 720s is such a REAL step forwards in terms of engineering is that it can achieve this performance on narrower less grippy tyres.

I dont see ANY reason why anyone would agree on the first part,What you think what qualify to be a REAL SuperCar, And what i think qualifys to be a REAL SuperCar are clearly 2 very different things, If you think this current ford GT is the only example, Then thats a huge problem.

And no, I dont think its a dinosaur compared to others, Why would i? If sticking to tradition is considered old, Im fine with that, But i dont see how you could, Im glad they stuck to it, Big power, Big torque, MAKES you drive the car, Not all CPU, Manual, Tire burning, Will kill you if you get too cocky, Just straight brute force, Its a Mini gun of guns, Not a 007 Gun, As it should be, Thats what a true American SuperCar should be, You shouldnt get in the car and have been turned into the best driver possible, It Makes you WORK to be the best driver possible, And thats how true American SuperCars should be, Along with being loud as shite, Bigger V8(At least in displacement) And thats how it should be for American SuperCars, WHy would i want a ZO6 to be like a 488? Or vice versa? Not too mention there are plenty of American SuperCars, They simply dont specialize in it.

And tyre development is correlates to vehicle development, Its literally the same thing, Tyres are part of a car, They may not be fixed as they are interchangeable within a few minutes, But so can everything else be, Try driving without them, Any part of the car can be changed, Same with tyres And again its more so if they are bespoke, Sure you can put a grippier pair on at the track, But you could for any part of the car given you have the right equipment and time, Everything can change every year, Or get better, Plus no car that i am aware of has had just a grippier tire switch in the last 15 years, Not one(That im aware) And as tech gets better so wont the rubber, Theres no stopping that.

And no, There are never hard feelings on here, But venting out here at a whole countrys manufacture simply because one is mad, Makes one look like a multitude of negative things.

And like ive been saying for years, Its stupid that all these companys are obsessed with laptimes, I could care less if one car is slower, Doesnt effect what im gonna buy, And i agree that cars should be more concerned with safety and weight rather then how fast they go round a track, Specially when certain cars wont even be taken to the track by their buyers.

Im certainly not gonna say the 20 isnt a step forward, Everyones newest car usually is, But because it has narrower less grippy tyres, I dont believe that is the whole story, For instance, How would the car, Or anycar do without its active aero? Or if it had 100bhp less(Or its real advertised power) Who knows. Plus 305 and 335 isnt a huge difference.

To be fair the C6 Z06 really was setting lap records left and right with modest power, and decent practicality. It also carried a decent price. It also did so without any aero at all and didn’t need super wide fat tires. It was the first car to really take advantage of adaptive suspension for additional performance imo. The 760hp ZR1 with all its aero, fat ultra sticky tires is less than 2 seconds faster than the C6 Z06. That Z06 will be one of the most collectible vettes of all time.

We all no the importance and the grip factor for cars that are normally on normal roads, Plus if your going to make said car, Then it should have said tires, No point in putting Pax tires on a car thats supposed to blitz a track, Plus Corsas are R comps, So it wouldnt be a big difference if they were to put Trofeos on in terms of normal driving, Even in the wet, Any tire can be driven in the wet, The more grip you get in the dry, The more cautious you get in the wet, its pretty much down to the driver more then the tyre.

And your also quite wrong about the european tyre spec, There are certainly cars here that have front tires 275m+, F12 Tdf, Panamera Turbo ST, TZ3 Stradale, SLS Black, AMG GTR, GT63, Thats just a few to name, SO there are plenty of european cars with front tyres just as big, And or bigger, Theres only 4 cars with tires bigger then 295s in the front, And thats one Chevy and 3 Dodges, So the size difference isnt as big as most think.

Right, so All Wheel Drive and an Automatic Transmission is engineering then? How about we move the engine to the back and give up any hope of usable trunk space? Sorry -- truth hurts, American cars are killing it.

oi vey...what a douche bag!...obviously a European brainwashing has taken place...open your eyes little Adolph

Calm your tits fat murcian f*g.

But look at price.... that zr1 is what half the price of the gt2rs... just saying...

Usually, people who use homophobic slurs are confused about their sexuality

Lol it’s not the American car makers fault that the euro car makers put skinny tires on there track cars you bring what you brought and that’s that. But keep making excuses on why your favorite McLaren got beat by a vette literally 150k less lol. Europeans cheat the most when it comes to lap times the Porsche used trofeo R tires which are almost impossible to use on the street and you’re ok with it mmmm double standard much. You’re just upset and triggered so before you comment back and hate on American cars why don’t you do your homework first and except the fact that American cars are giving European cars a good run for there money.

The VP of GM global product development will back me up on this When he crashed on the simplest of corners with cold tires.
https://youtu.be/dN_L_1fXs6s

Track times don’t = great car. When it’s a handling mess and can’t be driven hard without electronics then it’s a failure. It’s worst if the Tires start to crack while just sitting there in the winter. Yeah, that’s happened to Z06s and the ZR1 uses the same tires

I dont know if youve seen any other of my posts, but i absolutely am NOT ok with Porsche’s tyre choice. High performance road car tyres should have stopped at the corsa because they are the only tyre that actually function well in all conditions. Trofeo R, Cup 2, Cup 2R they are all apalling in the wet and i believe they have been stuck on the GT2RS to set lap records even though the car on equal rubber is no faster than the 918.

Only reason i focused on “american” cars is because they take it to a higher level than porsche. 295 and 355 tyres on the Viper ACR and people actually believe that the performance of the car is due to the chassis and aero? Sure they are factors but the tyre tells the story on its own.

You do realize that the Zr1 gets like 26mpg highway right, and in tour mode it's magnetic ride control is the fastest adapting suspension in the world for a production car, and let's you ride in near Cadillac smoothness, and its a well mannered car on the streets when going the speed limit, many journalists quoted that you could teach your child to drive in one. The c7 zr1 has the best braking of any car on the market, is the best handling front engine rwd car in the world, and one of the fastest front engine cars in the world, where it gets a 10.2 quarter mile on stock tires in its automatic transmission and a 10.8 in its manual. It also uses a front umderwing that produces a lot of downforce to stabilize the rear wings downforce. The McLaren 720s and 765lt just can't beat it, only the Senna can, and thats an incredible achievement