34 Formula 1 still slower than Le Mans LMP1 prototypes

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Even with wider tyres and more traction, Formula 1 cars have not caught up to the blistering acceleration benchmarks set by current generation LMP1 prototypes.

The last Sunday's Sky Sports feed of Formula 1 Austrian GP included unusual data graphic - 0-200 kph acceleration time for Valtteri Bottas Mercedes W08 in 4.6 seconds.

This acceleration time was measured after perfect start with very low reaction delay - so perfect, in fact, that competitors Sebastian Vettel and Daniel Ricciardo assumed Valtteri had jumped the start and pleaded for race direction investigation.

4.6 seconds is just 0.1 slower than LMP1 Porsche 919. LMP1 cars are four wheel drive and are believed to be more powerful than Formula 1 cars. Exact power output for fastest teams in both racing series are unknown, but we can speculate that F1 powertrains are now producing close to 1000 horsepower, while LMP1 prototypes can generate up to 1 megawatt (1300+ metric horsepower) in "full delivery" mode.

2w ago by FastestLaps
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Pertol head car loving XKR drive  23h ago

I dont care, I have been to both race series and love them all, whether its lawn mower racing, F1, Indy, Lemans rally, classics, goodwood, so long as they all continue and petrol heads can get their fix then long live motor sport. The technology that is driven from this sport is outstanding.


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sroser  2d ago

F1 cars are faster on acceleration too, just not from 0-100kph. 100-200kph and 100-300kph they're much faster. You only have to start a race once, so 0-100kph is meaningless.

 

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Gomareschi Matteo  2d ago

We are discussing about 0.1s faster from 0-100 (2WD vs 4WD) when a F1 will smoke a LMP1 from 100-200 and more.
Not considering a laptime comparison


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FastestLaps  12h ago

I am not so sure about 200-300. I don't know, maybe in 2017 F1 powertrains are more powerful, but a 2016 F1 car has CONSIDERABLY less power than LMP1 car. And therefore it is slower not just from a dig but also in high speed pulls.

With minimum wing, full battery and full delivery (push to pass) LMP1 car accelerates like nothing else - like Bugatti Veyron SS with weight of Lotus Exige.


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FastestLaps  12h ago @Gomareschi Matteo

It's not just a matter of 4WD vs 2WD. The problem (problem for F1 car) is that LMP1 powertrains are far more powerful - we are talking anywhere between 25 - 50% more power.

LMP1 regulations are just about the only place in high level motorsport where outlandish power outputs are still possible. We are talking Porsche 917 Can Am type of power. It's like a glitch - a loophole in otherwise boring, suffocating sea of regulations and restrictions in motorsport.


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DrDuke  7h ago @FastestLaps

Toyota says they have 1000ps combined.
LMP1 Weight (without driver and fuel): 878 kg
F1 Weight (with driver, without fuel): 728 kg

Power to weight winner is the F1 car.
If the F1 car could use kers from the start it would be faster to every speed you like than the LMP1 car.
https://www.toyota-motorsport.com/en/latest-information-archive-en/494-ts050-hybrid-new-car-new-challenge-for-toyota-gazoo-racing

Porsche has even less bhp
http://www.porsche.com/international/motorsportandevents/motorsport/worksracing/racingcars/919-hybrid/featuresandspecs/
and they claim 4.8 seconds for 0-200km/h

Mercedes is near 1000bhp from the engine alone
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/02/23/mercedes-edging-towards-1000bhp-from-engine-despite-reliability-fixes/

I dont know from where you got your phantasie numbers


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Zulmiro  1w ago

What a fallacious title... the 0-200kph is such a meaningless characteristic on a comparison between two race cars, especially one with the chosen title...
The truth is the f1 car was and still is much faster (on the track wich is where it matters) , and to my surprise it seems that even on this acceleration (0-200) it has an equivalent time(if not faster) to a more powerfull awd race car...

 

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FastestLaps  1w ago

Of course F1 cars are faster than LMP1 cars. That is a purposefully misleading title - a title that should have had an asterisk to it, because it's about acceleration and not overall speed.

But my purpose was to trigger F1 fans who are oblivious to other race series and the fact that other race cars are faster than F1 cars in certain criteria, such as acceleration from standstill. In this domain the title "LMP1 cars still faster than F1 cars" is valid.


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Fastedee  1w ago @FastestLaps

Rally cars have crazy low speed acceleration


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Not really comparable IMO  5d ago @FastestLaps

I think this .1 seconds is due to one car being AWD while the other isn't.

.1 seconds is more than attributable to the AWD.

An LMP1 car around Silverstone is ~10 seconds slower than an F1 car:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/2017/british-grand-prix/results/qualifying

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/silverstone-wec-toyota-takes-dominant-1-2-in-qualifying-894136/

The cars aren't really setup to be drag raced. If you compare the cars out of a corner accelerating onto the straight, the Formula 1 car would be MUCH quicker. It is nearly 150 kilograms lighter and has TONS more power than the LMP1 919.

Porsche themselves claim a 0-200 KPH time of 4.8 seconds on their page. Yes, they always are a bit lower than real world, but it is pretty clear that the F1 car will do everything better than a Le Mans Prototype.

Just my .02



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Annoyinimus  2w ago

Start is uphill

 

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FastestLaps  2w ago

It kicks up to slight uphill towards the end of the straight, so I don't think that affected the 0-200 time much.


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rhs1992  2w ago

And with activated DRS F1 car, could do 0-200 in less than 4.5s

 

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FastestLaps  2w ago

I don't think DRS would matter too much for 0-200, but it would matter a lot for 0-300. Either way, with low fuel, perfectly "cooked" tyres and DRS off I believe these F1 cars have what it takes to beat 4.5. But we won't know until we know :D

F1 should provide more acceleration infographics. Would enrich the F1 dataset on Fastestlaps :D


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rhs1992  2w ago

Vettel did in 4.7s

 

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FastestLaps  2w ago

Was it shown on screen or is that just your estimation? As soon as something is shown on screen, it's official data by FIA, as far as I am concerned, and I can add it to Fastestlaps as such.


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QA51M  2w ago @FastestLaps

They did show vettels time to show his reaction was 0.347 second or something and his 0-200 was 4.7. It was shown about 5 minutes after they showed bottas accell data


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saxy  2w ago

4.6s to 200kph in a car of about 100kg of fuel. That is impressive indeed.

And yes that was a jumpstart for sure


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Murmur  2w ago

Is there a similar, real measured time for a LMP1 car, instead of the useless and purely theoretical ones?

 

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FastestLaps  2w ago

It is very dumb to reject simulation results as "useless and theoretical". Really shows how little you understand about advanced vehicle physics simulation. Difference between good sim and real life is practically nothing, provided you can get a really good and representative real world sample, which this Bottas start really was.

And yes, there is "real time" published by Porsche themselves and it's 4.5 seconds - incidentally, exactly the same as Assetto Corsa simulation.


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Murmur  2w ago @FastestLaps

Naah, they're useless, as useless as a theoretical calculated ring time. :-D Real time or it didn't happen.


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FastestLaps  2w ago @Murmur

That's just ignorance. Simulated and estimated acceleration times are far more reliable than simulated and estimated (God forbid) lap times.

And, btw, it did happen, Porsche have that time on their website for 919 ;)


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Derb  2w ago

it was a jumpstart
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tken_aR8bD8
but this stupid formela 1 stewards do what they want
"it was in the tolerance" what stupid shit
in FOUR fps you can see the tyres and the car moving while the light are still red
four fps! this is not even close to a correct start

 

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FastestLaps  2w ago

I don't think it was a jump start at all.


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Derb  2w ago @FastestLaps

tell me the reason why do you it is not a jumpstart?
he startet bevor the red lights were off
and the stewards said it was in the tolerance
is there anywere written how big this tolerance is?
and from where is this 0,2s reaktion time coming? this is so stupid
there can't be any reaction time because he startet bevore the red lights were off


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Fastedee  2w ago @FastestLaps

Human reaction is .185 so Bottas was just very quick.


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Derb  2w ago @Fastedee

are you joking?
he was not quick he was to early
it was a jumpstart there is no question
the only thing which has to be discussed is what this tolerance is


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Fastedee  2w ago @Derb

No it just looks that way but he started a hundredth of a second after he was allowed. Put the start on frame by frame. Finns are honest drivers.


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Derb  2w ago @Fastedee

you can see him rolling and the red lights at the same time
that is a jumpstart
nothing any more to discuss about that


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FastestLaps  2w ago @Derb

As far as I can tell (from watching Sky feed) he didn't jump the start and he did launch after a very minimal delay, which could be regarded as his reaction time. I understand that there is a rule against "anticipated starts" where driver just randomly goes when he think the lights will go off rather than as a reaction of seeing the lights go off. But I think that rule is pointless - If someone can anticipate start signal, more power to him and that's just good luck anyway, because doing so you have much greater chances of really jumping the start and receiving penalty.

But as long as driver moves AFTER the start signal, I don't think there should be any investigation or any penalty at all, no matter what the delay between the signal and the clutch drop.

Either way, Bottas "reaction time" was within what's considered "humanly possible" so there was no sanctions on him anyway.


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FastestLaps  2w ago @Derb

As far as measuring acceleration times, super quick starts with very little or no reaction time are even encouragable, after all, car acceleration figures are not about driver's reaction time.


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Fastedee  2w ago @FastestLaps

Yeah.


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Fastedee  2w ago @Derb

It's just that we mere mortals can't see things like F1 drivers do.

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