Picture of BMW M3 (F80)

BMW M3 (F80)

Twin Turbo Inline-6, 24v
431 ps (425 bhp)
550 Nm (406 lb-ft)
1589 kg (3503 lbs)
271 ps / tonne
Picture of Alfa Romeo Giulia QV

Alfa Romeo Giulia QV

Twin Turbo V6
510 ps (503 bhp)
1703 kg (3754 lbs)
299 ps / tonne

Lap Times 6

  M3Giulia QV
Grand Tour Eboladrome 1:24.301:27.10
Top Gear Track 1:21.601:21.40
Sachsenring 1:37.091:37.37
Motortrend Figure-8 0:24.000:24.20
Hockenheim Short 1:13.101:12.40
Inta 1:10.231:11.60

Performance

  M3Giulia QV
Kerb weight
Top speed 280 kph (174 mph)307 kph (191 mph)
0 - 50 kph 1.6 s1.7 s
0 - 100 kph 4.1 s3.8 s
0 - 130 kph 6.0 s5.7 s
0 - 160 kph 8.5 s7.9 s
0 - 200 kph 13.3 s12.3 s
0 - 60 mph 3.8 s3.6 s
0 - 100 mph 8.5 s8.1 s
0 - 150 mph 20.8 s19.9 s
Est. 1/8 mile 8.1 s @ 96.3 mph7.8 s @ 97.6 mph
1/4 mile 12.0 s @ 119.3 mph11.8 s
1000 m 22.2 s @ 243.5 kph21.6 s
Est. 100 - 200 kph 9.2 s8.5 s
100 kph - 0 33 m (107 ft)31 m (102 ft)
140 kph - 0 67 m (219 ft)70 m (228 ft)
200 kph - 0 134 m (438 ft)126 m (415 ft)
60 mph - 0 30 m (99 ft)30 m (100 ft)
70 mph - 0 46 m (150 ft)42 m (138 ft)
18m slalom 67.7 kph (42.1 mph)70.6 kph (43.9 mph)
Fuel economy 10.0 l/100 km (24 mpg US / 28 mpg UK)9.8 l/100 km (24 mpg US / 29 mpg UK)
Lateral acceleration 1.01 g (10 m/s²)1.17 g (11 m/s²)

Summary

  M3Giulia QV
Track Performance 596582
Straight line speed 20632366
Total 26592948

Verdict

Giulia QV is the fastest by a small margin.

This comparison has been viewed 8604 times.

Acceleration graph

Acceleration chart
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Alfista   1y ago

Giulia QV it's faster sedan into words ????????????
bmw m3 it's faster sedan in Germany ????


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PPZC  1y ago

Holy f*ck the Giulia is such a piece of shit.
First RWD saloon by Alfa in 2 decades yet it's an overweight and overpriced V6 sedan that can't even compete with the base M3 from 2011 despite running on semi slicks LMFAO

 

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DrDuke  1y ago

Yeah - it just wins every comparison against the m3 competition pack but I don't want to destroy your dreamworld.
Semi slick? It's not a trofeo r it's a normal road tire for high performance cars.

But keep whining - your tears are sweet :)


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saxy  1y ago @DrDuke

Pirelli Corsas with 60 tire rating. Normal road tire for performance cars? Hot slicks are also "normal tires" for formula 1 cars...


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DrDuke  1y ago @saxy

The problem with UTQG Treadwear Grades is that they are open to some interpretation on the part of the tire manufacturer because they are assigned after the tire has only experienced a little treadwear as it runs the 7,200 miles. This means that the tire manufacturers need to extrapolate their raw wear data when they are assigning Treadwear Grades, and that their grades can to some extent reflect how conservative or optimistic their marketing department is. Typically, comparing the Treadwear Grades of tire lines within a single brand is somewhat helpful, while attempting to compare the grades between different brands is not as helpful.

It was certainly a slick after 7200 miles - It's comparable to the new michelin pilot sport 4 S

And tire wear alone doesn't say much - I had P zero rosso on a car and switched then to ps3. The grip was the same and the ps3 lasted longer.

Sooo sweat tears ;)


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saxy  1y ago @DrDuke

Lol. The old story about one man's experience must be more valuable than all the sense in the world. So the Pilot sport cup 4s are as good as the tires on the Laferrari and P1? Thanks for letting the world know that. You must be a god or something. You know like everything.


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BR2+  1y ago @DrDuke

...Wait what? lol A Corsa is anything but normal tyre, There R comps, Competition tyres designed for max performance in the dry, But that doesnt mean you cant use them in the wet or daily, But to call them normal is like calling a LaFerrari normal. Corsas, Corsa Systems, There both Semi slick classified tyres, There in the same category as MPSC2s and Trofeos, Hell even V720s ACR treadwear is more then then Corsas. Hell the Giulia is only one of 3 cars to wear competition tyres, And even then its a 50/50 chance of beating an M3C.


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DrDuke  1y ago @BR2+

Saxy there are no pilot sport cup 4s – you just invented it. There is just a Michelin pilot sport 4 S the successor of the super sport. Which isn’t in your fancy tire chart.

This tire wear number is okay if you dlike to buy new tires for your Prius which you drive like a granny. For a sport tire it would be more suitable if you drive it on a race track at 90% of its capabilities. Or do you buy sport tires to drive in south texas in straight line?
There aren’t many reviews or comparison with the corsa tire. But sport auto did a tire test in issue 4/17. They compared the Michelin pilot sport 4 S, sport cup 2 and the Pirelli Trofeo R.
Wet braking (80km/h): ps4s 32.6 / sc2 39.2 / tr 39.6
Wet handling average speed: ps4s 78.5 / sc2 67.4 / tr 66.4
Dry braking (100km/h): ps4s 34.3 / sc2 34.4 / tr 32.8
Dry handling: ps4s 85.1 / sc2 87.1 / tr 86.7
Most positive profile TR – least ps4s
Now you dlike to tell me that a tire which is more for street use is faster than an sc2 or tr? Usage profile for ps4s and p zero corsa is 60% street 40% track – real semis have an usage profile of 90% track 10% street.
When you put an sport cup 2 on the giulia and let franca drive it over the NOS it will destroy the m4 gts.
When you look what BMW hat to do (water injection) to get another 60bhp out of the m4 gts engine. Then its not hard to believe that this engine is at its limits. Just another BMW engine that will blow with some milage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engine)
Seriously, who wants a car with water injection? This is something for the drag strip.


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DrDuke  1y ago @DrDuke

Another question for you dude - does every car that uses 20l for 100km has 1500ps? - thats the same kind of nonsense like you did with your tire wear rating. There are certainly some cheap chinese tires with the same tire wear rating as the pirelli but half the performance.


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DrDuke  1y ago

why is the QV ebola drome laptime not marked as wet in the comparison? It's correct on the QV page.


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cosimo  1y ago

honda is for losers and losers only buy honda's and praise them :)

 

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FastestLaps  1y ago

Fernando Alonso approves this message.


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BR2+  1y ago

You could neglect a Honda for 4569 years in the water on Titan, And would still run better then 99999% better then ery car on the road...

Also...How many Alfa do you see at track days?....exactly, I frequently do every end of the month, And there are more a american cars there then Alfa, and I'm Inot the uk....

 

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priorty  1y ago

If you neglect engine oil level in Honda, it would suffer as any other car. Don't be silly and fan boyish.

As for Alfa presence at track days mind their market share which is around 3-5% in sports hatch and sports sedans. Then you should understand why see more of other cars. If it doesn't help, ask yourself what percentage of Alfa production for given model is still on the road. Then you will that these cars last for long.


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DrDuke  1y ago

Well a true alfa has rwd. So everything between 1987-2013 wears the badge but isnt the breed. Maybe thats the main reason why you dont see them much on track days. The other reason is that many old cars are used for historic racing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFgdoSfT4zk&spfreload=10
As you can see 1750 cubic combined with an excellent chassis is enoguh to beat much stronger cars. There are a lot of these videos around on YT Like this 2L GTAm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2rXa9EvK-o - just for the sound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_YDsucU2Hs&spfreload=10 or this v12 3L is even a bit more crazy.


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Fastedee  1y ago

Driving it back to Earth could be tricky lol.


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DrDuke  1y ago

Saxy maybe you should watch some historical racing series videos. There are so many alfas running because they are cheap to run and reliable. Beside the fact that they are pretty fast for their bhps and weight.

Alfa has mainly two kind of customers: ppl that like to have a car who survives hard driving and ppl that d'like to have a nice looking car. The first of them know how to care their car the second maybe not. Another big factor is the quality of your mechanic - this goes for all brands.

99% of all drivers (maybe even true for so called car nuts) out there don't drive their car really hard. Just let's say if you never see your brake pads smoking and smell them you don't. How should these people be a reliable source? Most of them running glazed pads because they never ever brake hard. So maybe you should start to drive hard and make your own experiences.

By the way my dad was once rally driver and he owned a lot of alfas so far. I mentioned only my two cars before.

 

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saxy  1y ago

It's funny. What you said is that only 1% of people drive their cars hard and Alfas when driven hard don't break. But all the other 99% of people who don't drive their cars hard, is when their cars break... LMFAOOOO!

I hope you didn't want to mean it that way because that was ridiculous.


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DrDuke  1y ago @saxy

No you didnt get the point. For example in the 70ies alfa engines had pretty small oil reservoirs. And in these days oil was injected into the combustion process. If you were driving all the time full throttle you had a noticeable higher oil consumption. The people who understand something about cars knew that and checked their oil level more often. Other people just sat in their cars and drove until the next service was necessary. Sometimes the oil was gone before the next service and they had a capital engine failure. The next iteration of these engines had a 2 litre reservoir and on minimum you still have 7 litre inside your engine (v6).
Another example I had a few weeks ago a screw in one of my tires. I noticed it a few meters after it happened. But most people drive until they drive on the rim. That's the reason why modern cars have pressure sensors in the tires.


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priorty  1y ago @saxy

Reading with understanding is not your strong point. DrDuke said that most of problems with cars come from neglecting maintanance duties and it's valid across all brands. And that conscious owner of any car avoid most of engine failures. Incidentaly the percentage of conscious car owners is bigger among those who drive hard and those people don't complaint about Alfa's relibilty.

That was said and you understood it as "Alfa broke less when driven hard" not when its owner fulfill routine maintenance duties.

Whole discussion shows only how biased against Alfa you are. I guess you run one of those Japanese car that provides nearly no fun from driving and relies on outdated technology from which most of their reliability derives.


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saxy  1y ago @priorty

thats funny. So only the 1% people who drive their cars hard actually take care of their car? I'm not sure what you do to take care of your car. But when my car has specified service intervals, and specified wear and tear replacement, I do all that's required. That's what most drivers do who had a decent car. Following these normal procedures, alfas are simply not as reliable as other brands. It's not me doing the judging.

And now you justify Alfa reliability for it being more sporty and "advanced" than Japanese manufacturers? How advanced is a Alfa Mito or the Gullietta? Bull crap.
Fanboys will be fanboys.


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FRA  1y ago @saxy

A lot of people for example complain about Alfa and BMW suspension problems when they got old, but forgot to replace all the bushes. Then say the cars eat the tyres for the inside. Of course more rudimentar suspensions are less prone to this type of problems, as well are less able to perform as good. And i can extend this comparison to other equal aspects.


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saxy  1y ago

Nice logic. If I told you I drove an Alfa before does that qualify me to be an expert in personal experience with Alfa reliability? This fanboy is so butthurt lol

And may I turn to the 2nd hand market. Alfas are dropping to 1/3 of their price after just 3 years in my country. Boy if you say they are that reliable then 2nd alfas are the best deals in the world

 

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priorty  1y ago

You still don't get. Reliabiliy of Alfas is confirmed both by their owners and by independent survey. It's common knowledge here in Europe that if you want reliable diesel you go for Alfa's 1.6 or 2.0 JTDm engines. If you want reliable turbocharged ptherol you go for 1.4 or 1.7 TBi. Check out some ranks of the most reliable small diesel and turbocharged pethrol engines. So, IT'S NOT PERSONAL OPINION.

Ironically, unreliability of Alfas is a personal opinion of those who have never had any Alfa.


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priorty  1y ago

@saxy

Have you ever driven any Alfa? I guess the answer is "No". That's why you write this bullshits about reliability of Alfas. You've got world-wide statistics that says that Alfa's diesels are the most reliable diesel engines recently produced. They sold millions of 1.6 jtdm and 2.0 jtdm that appear under the bonnets of Fiat, Opel, Alfa and Ram. Those engines are known from reliability up to 500 000 km (with no turbo and direct injection system replecement). The similar story goes for turbocharged pethrol engines from Alfa. Both 1.4 tbi and 1.7 tbi are among the most reliable turbocharged engines on the market. You would know that, if you weren't so biased and took a look at some stats from Europe, where most of Fiat and Alfa products are sold.


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saxy  1y ago

German cars have never been reliable, but Alfas are even worst. That is a fact. I don't care if ONE person managed to get lucky and had 2 decent cars. That means absolutely nothing when comparing to a country or world-wide ownership studies.

It's exactly the same thing with a few Americans who claim their american car ran for 200,000 miles or something, so all American cars must be as reliable as Toyota or Honda....


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Priorty  1y ago

@ppz Alfa had been mastering in motor sports long before BMW did. Alfa also did the very first sports sedan at the market. Deal with it.

However German fairly tales refers to reliability stats in which Alfa belongs to the most unreliable cars. And this is plain bullshit since Alfa did reliable cars since 147 and 159 model.

Most of reliability reports are piece of junk. I wrote what wrong with tuv and ADAC few posts below. JD power muddies a water since they score down cars for functions that works in other way than user expected. What does it supposed to mean? That car is unintuitive in some way? Great but for who? For frequent user of fca products?

Other consumer satisfaction reports uses broad notion of problem and measures only a volume of problems without applying any weight to them. Hence you may get a car that burn engine oil due to faulty design of pistons ring scoring better than some fiat that have two problems : one with window seal and second with AC controls. As you see most of reliability reports are piece of bullshit

 

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saxy  1y ago

So someone's grandfather used to build racecars for Alfa, how does that have to do with the FWD hatchbacks and current model line up in this 21st century?


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priorty  1y ago @saxy

their history transfer into know-how. And Gulia QV - current model line-up - is the best example of this know-how. The car smashed all of rivals. Isn't it enough?

Moreover, FWD Alfa 159 manage to do slalom faster than e90 3 series. So, it again shows that their heritage has meaning in 21st century.

Recently they've got FWD Giuletta hatch, but new RWD hatch from Alfa is comming. And it will reach the market at the very same time when BMW will introduce their new FWD 1 series. So in two years Alfa will be the only automaker who provides RWD hatch.

Think again. And remember that Alfa shares technology with Ferrari.


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saxy  1y ago @priorty

and it also shares the magnificent quality of Fiat and Chrysler!

I'm not saying the Alfa Guilia to be bad at all. It's just your sense of "brand attachment" is too fanboyish. It's just like how Mercedes used to make bulletproof Reliable cars, so that means they still are "the best or nothing". Or that BMW still builds "the ultimate driving machine".


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priorty  1y ago @saxy

Am I fanboy of Alfa? I guess that's why I've bought BMW 428i year ago. :)

Part of my business consists in long term renting and I've got over 1000 cars in my fleet. Some of them are FCA products and all of those scores best in terms of reliability and maintanance costs. Ten years ago I've got over fifty Alfa 159 in 1.9 jtdm, 2.0 jtdm and 1.7 TBi. Neither of them cause any issue in their whole 4 years life cycle and over 300 000 km of milage. Similar story goed for Fiat Bravo 1.4 T-Jet, 1.4 Mulitijet and 1.9 JTDm. At some time I've got nearly 100 of them and neither cause any issue. Contrary to Golfs VI 1.4 TSi that were in a fleet at that time. I also use Fiat Ducato tracks and up to the time I've got over 300 Ducatos with different engines set ups, but mostly with 2.4 jtdm diesels. These are really tough cars.

So the question is what's your reliability benchmark. Don't be shy, share with us.


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PPZ  1y ago

What German fairy tales?
BMW was building Isettas in the 1950's but BMW has been producing sports cars since the 1930's.


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DrDuke  1y ago

Well I own a 147 1.9 JTD with over 253000 km no significant repair costs up to date. Never had to give him oil between service intervals. No engine parts replaced. It has a chip tuning (over 400Nm and 170ps), a modified clutch, strut brace and a Q2 locking differential.
My second car is an Alfa 90 2.5 v6 with 230000 km - it was my first car and its still running very well. The cylinder head is from the 3.0 engine everything else is original. Even the double disc clutch is the first one.

Don't be fool to belive german fairy tales. When Alfa introduced the first Giulia BMW builded still Isettas. Which was also an italian design but nobody in italy d'liked to mass produce it.


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saxy  1y ago

https://www.google.com.hk/amp/www.nydailynews.com/amp/autos/street-smarts/consumer-reports-10-unreliable-car-brands-article-1.2848900

Bottom 4 brands are all FCA. Alfa isn't included because, they are barely represented in the states.

I heard that for top gear they went through some 4 Alfas for the quadrofolgio test/video. It could be just a rumour


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priorty  1y ago

@saxy: Which consumer reports? At the moment Alfa sells most of its cars in Europe, where we've got two major reliability reports: ADAC and TUV.

First one base on number of situation when car owners in Germany needed a help on a road, but any brand may pay for oversighting their calls in stats as Mercedes Bezn and Volkswagen indeed did.

TUV bases its statistics on outcomes of registration technical reviews. So it says something about a state in which cars attempt to pass technical review, but it says nothing about what have happened earlier. Hence you've got high VW's TSI engine reliability in TUV stats, even though owners have to pay thousands of euros for repairing these faulty engines. Same goes for my BMW 428i. Great in TUV and ADAC stats and unrealiable in reality (direct injection system was replaced after 60 000 km, engine's head - after 100 000 km).


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saxy  2y ago

Alfas being reliable for the past 10 years?
Funny you say that because a quick check with consumer reports, the Fiat Chrysler family of cars earned bottom rock for 2 years in a row, 2015 and 2016.

Did u mean that 2017, they suddenly became top notch reliability?


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BR2+  2y ago

...How is it much faster exactly?...And better handling?


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priorty  2y ago

@Fastestlaps: As true BMW lover I need to say that Alfa is much faster and better hadnling car than m3 and m4. It's really hard to pretend it's not.

BTW, You rely your opinion on Giulia's reliabity just on a prejudice which mostly came from mechanical problems of TS pethrol engines. Since model 159 it's hard to find any electronical issues in Alfa Romeos. To find electronically unreliable Alfa you need to refer back to 156, but that was over 10 years ago. Moreover the whole family of Alfa new turbocharged pethrol engines proves to be exceptionally realible as compared to what modern market offers. Both 1.4 TBi and 1.7 TBi are superb in terms of reliability, numerous research support that. I would expect more issues from VW TSI engines. My 2.0 TSI 211 HP required crank and pistons replacement after 70k km due to high engine oil consumption (over 1 litre/1000 km). I haven't also had a good experience with new BMW 2.0 Turbo 245 HP which required the head replacement after 150k km in model 328i. Along that time my friend did 200k km in Giuletta 1.7 TBi 240 HP with nearly no issues. The only one was related to ingition coil. But its replacement was relatively cheap.

For these reasons I find no arguments for 2.9 V6 ureliability as well as for 2.0 TBi 280 HP unreliability. Of course, diesel engines from Alfa are much more reliabie, but it's well known fact since 1997. Even 156 had no mechnical issues if you chose a diesel engine.


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rizzy+  2y ago

Meh for the price of this thing I could grab a fully loaded 40k Skoda superB L& K and a Radical SR8 LM from racecarsdirect.com race or street legal don't matter.


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FastestLaps  2y ago

For me the only potential issue with taking Giulia over 3-series would be quality (reliability and quality = almost same thing).

Just the feel of the materials, how the plastics feel, all the trim pieces, how they fit together etc. It's a big deal for me persoanlly. Sound insulation is another thing, and often they (fit & finish and cabin noise) go hand in hand.

Haven't sat in a Giulia, don't know how good it is. But in terms of performance and exclusivity and "interesting-ness", Giulia already wins. At least as far as M3 vs QV. Regular range models might be different, you have to look at each trim level individually and how Italian diesel engines compare to BMW in terms of costs and reliability.

Buying a car is so damn difficult if you want to get it absolutely right. Heck, even buying a smartphone these days is complicated if you take all things into consideration.

Consumer research is almost like a true science these days, with so many products on offer in all product categories.


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saxy  2y ago

Where I live is always behind compared to the rest of the world. No info, and no way of ordering the Guilia yet. I am curious how the prices stack. And I'm also curious about the reliability.

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